By Stephen “Breadman” Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards tackling a variety of topics, such as Daniel Jacobs vs. Jermall Charlo, the career of Gary Russell Jr, Manny Pacquiao and him not facing Terence Crawford, the career of Demetrius Andrade, the jaw of Lennox Lewis, and more.
Hey – Once again major props to your knowledge of boxing !!! your post ( which I find myself really looking forward to Saturday’s so I can read ) was unbelievable . checking that guy about the greatness and the tough schedule Manny Pacquiao has faced was great!!! also the fact that you Let everyone know that Ray Leonard beat Marvin Hagler . I was at the fight and everyone including Hagler knew it was Leonards night!!! #Facts as great as Marvin was he has coned the Publik into believing he won the fight when he knew himself he lost! when have you ever seen Marvin Hagler dance in the ring after a fight he knew!!!
One quick question I’m giving fury a big big chance against wilder I think he will outbox him what are your thoughts ???
Once again keep up the great work Howie from New Jersey
Bread’s Response: Yes people who go out of their way to disrespect fighters are straight up jealous. It’s one thing to not like a fighter. It’s something different to go out of your way to insult a fighter. I try not to ever make fun or say derogatory things publicly about fighters unless a fighter is caught cheating.
I didn’t appreciate Hagler as much when I was younger as I do now. I looked at his pre title run and I simply couldn’t believe how hard he had it for an American fighter. Even by the era’s standards his pre title run was INSANE. Willie Monroe 3x, Bobby Watts 2x, Cyclone Hart, Benny Briscoe and Olympian Sugar Ray Seales 3x. That’s 10 killer fights before he even won his title. And each fighter was from a hot bed of talent. Philadelphia and that Seattle area used to produce some heat. Hagler’s pre title run was so good after I properly assessed it I put him #3 All time behind Robinson and Greb. Where before it was common to have Monzon in the all time 3rd spot at 160. But after looking at what Hagler did I couldn’t deny his resume was slightly better than Monzon’s.
But you are correct. Hagler has conned the public into thinking it was a conspiracy against him that he lost. He makes it seem as if Ray Leonard invented 12 round fights. By 1987 most of the championship fights were 12 rounds instead of 15. The IBF held out a little bit longer than the WBC and WBA. But the interesting thing is Hagler fought Juan Roldan, Thomas Hearns and John Mugabi in 12 round fights before Leonard. But you will hear people LIE and say that Leonard was Hagler’s first 12 round fight. It’s totally FALSE and if you don’t believe me check boxrec and see what the aforementioned fights were scheduled for. Hagler acted as if he was forced to concede so much.
The 12 round myth is just not true. The glove size things is also not true. Leonard asked for the same size gloves that Hagler always fought in. The difference was the thumbs were attached. Let someone who hates Leonard tell it, they act like middleweights weren’t fighting in 10oz gloves before Hagler vs Leonard. The only thing Hagler conceded that could have cost him was ring size. But Leonard was a superstar. What superstar won’t negotiate to their favor? The ring was legal it was just big. What Hagler and his fans won’t talk about is Hagler made way more money. He got to collect off of more states in the Closed Circuit market than Leonard. Some report that Hagler walked away with 25 million at the end. That’s 54 million today in 2018 on the inflation calculator. Leonard made about half of that and he was an ICON. So the next time someone tells you Hagler got jobbed at the negotiation table tell them what I told you.
The fact is Hagler was getting older and he wanted his huge payday. He wanted his severance pay from boxing. So he sacrificed ring size for money. The 12 round thing he could have never won because he fought 3 of his recent championship fights in 12 rounders so there is no way he could have publicly negotiated for 15 and people side with him. Hagler thought he would blow through the inactive smaller Leonard and it just didn’t happen that way. Hagler not only danced after the fight to display a false sense of assurance. But he made the ridiculous claim that Leonard never hurt him. You don’t have to hurt a fighter to outpoint him.
Hagler and Leonard were fighting for the best fighter of the 80s. And Leonard won. It’s really that simple.
I give Fury a great shot. He can box his butt off and he’s super confident.
Thanks for responding to my question ‘Andre Ward vs Light Heavyweights’ in your last mailbag. You had already answered ‘Andre Ward vs Super Middleweights’ in an earlier mailbag to someone else. I like Ward because he is a true Boxer-Puncher. He can box moving froward and swarm while dancing circles. The latter is quite uncommon. He moved around the ring against Kovalev but more often then not whenever he engaged, he moved forward in a bent posture (like swarmers) and started infighting (like swarmers). There is a grey area in every sport and clinching is one such area in boxing. Outfighters like Floyd are generally defensive clinchers, i.e., they clinch when cornered or hurt in order to avoid punishment. Then there are offensive clinchers like Greb, Duran, Saddler and Ward. They punish their opponents in clinch or use it to avoid punishment when they are themselves hurt. Offensive clinching is generally associated with Swarmers, though there have been some notable outfighters who were offensive clinchers. Boxer punchers like Ward falls in both categories.
Three questions –
1 Why are modern pressure fighters so easily neutralized by clinching. For example, Pacquiao vs Floyd. I do not think that it would have been a good idea for Floyd to clinch Duran. Hell, Duran used to proactively clinch his opponents and hit. If nothing else, modern swarmers can learn to avoid getting clinched. Pryor could see Dujuan Johnson trying to clinch when he was pinned against ropes and would either parry his arms or push him back (Pacquiao could learn from this). Foreman could see Qawi move forward in a slouched position and would push him in his preferred range (Kovalev could have used it against Ward to avoid getting clinched, though pressure fighters rarely clinch these days except Porter).
2 Why is clinch only used these days to neutralize their opponents when cornered (mostly outfighters) or when a boxer is hurt (every boxer). Why aren’t pressure fighters using it like Harry Greb and Duran.
3 I know plenty of pressure fighters who loved clinching opponents but can you name some good pressure fighters who were great at avoiding getting clinched when they cornered their opponents. Sorta like Pryor.
Bread’s Response: Man you really know boxing. You have the EYE. Often times I wonder if Ward is underrated because he only has 32 fights and we haven’t seen him vs enough of the greats. All around fighters like Ward don’t get appreciated enough by the EYE BALL test. They need the results. For example Hopkins was less appreciated than Trinidad until they fought. Same with Holyfield and Tyson. I wonder if we underappreciate Ward. As great as he is he never was a huge underdog in a fight. Sometimes critics want to see fighters defy what looks like insurmountable odds. Often times people will pick a Toney, Jones or Calzaghe to beat Ward because they were more visually pleasing. I may even be guilty of this.
Maybe Ward is good enough to beat them all and we can’t see all of his talents. It’s not impossible. Ward was special.
Speaking of his style Ward has a hybrid style. And he’s definitely an offensive clincher. I always look at how Floyd fought Maidana and Pacman. Ward would have punished them both on the inside, where as Floyd just tied them up. Especially Maidana who was working. You’re the first person who ever wrote in who understands there is a difference between offensive and defensive clinching.
I will add to your list. Ricky Hatton. He was a murderous offensive clincher. And that’s why the Eastern Euro style of Kostya Tsyzu couldn’t handle him. Tszyu would have always been troubled by Hatton at any point in his career.
1. Modern fighters get neutralized by clinching because they don’t realize there is more to infighting than punching. Mike Tyson was a great puncher and he had a great uppercut. But he was easy to clinch and neutralize. So is Manny Pacquiao. In fact if Pacquiao was an offensive clincher on the level of Saddler or Duran he would be the best P4P fighter ever. Seriously no one realizes that Manny is a hyper active out fighter with blazing handspeed. He’s short so we assume he’s an infighter but he isn’t.
Tyson was the same way. His infighting was better than Pacquiao’s but his brain wasn’t. Tyson restarted his programmed attack after every clinch.
Some fighters force you to fight them. The reason being is you can’t clinch them and if you move too much they burn you out. Pryor and Duran were like that. You either have to fight them or use your legs. You’re not going to clinch them and rest. Kovalev has NO in game and once Ward became callous to his punching power Kovalev was in trouble.
Modern fighters also can’t grapple. It’s too tiring for them. So they accept the clinches. Their stances are too wide and their pad routines don’t consist of real scenarios.
2. The reason there are less pressure fighters is because it takes too much energy to get into the shape you need to be in to be Aaron Pryor, Harry Greb, Roberto Duran etc. Even Duran couldn’t be a pressure fighter after the 1st Leonard fight. He evolved into an “in the box” cutey.
And with fighters walking around 30 lbs over their fight weights we won’t see many surface. Jarrett Hurd is interesting because he’s a big guy who really pressures you. I’m interested in knowing what his diet and rehydration is because he’s an anomaly.
3. Aaron Pryor is one of the most unclinchable fighters I have ever seen. A prime Chavez was also hard to grab. He didn’t accept too many clinches. Luis Nery is pretty good for this era.
A true pressure fighter is rare in this era. Believe it or not Errol Spence may be our best. He’s not short and he has some athleticism so we don’t equate him with pressure. But Spence really understands how to come get you. In the rock, paper, scissors of boxing. A volume pressure guy can overcome the boxer. The reason why fighters shy away from boxers in this era is because they don’t have real pressure games. There are punchers in this era but not too many true pressure guys. BIG difference.
Thank you for writing in. Best comment I’ve had in a long time.
I’m a massive fan of your mailbag and look forward to it every week. This is my first time writing in to you.
Is there a legitimate claim for Leo Santa Cruz to be recognised as Lineal champion at 126?
After unifying at 122 against undefeated Scott Quigg, Carl Frampton moved up to 126 to challenge undefeated Leo for his world title. Frampton won a close fight and in my opinion was then deserving of being ranked number 1 in the division (and rightfully named fighter of the year for 2016) and Santa Cruz as number 2.
So when Leo won their immediate rematch (in another entertaining, close fight) shouldn’t a new Lineage have been formed and Leo be credited with two defenses of his Lineal title (Avalos and Mares).
Or does Gary Russell Jr’s presence in the division get in the way of the winner of that rematch being crowned Lineal champ at 126? His activity is very frustrating, by the way, so I’m happy TBRB now have him at no.3.
Lastly, how do you see the following fighters playing out?
– Frampton v Warrington (IBF), winner takes on Oscar Valdez (WBO) to unify (his manager expressed interest this week)
– Santa Cruz (WBA) v Russell Jr (WBC).
– Frampton v Santa Cruz III (in Belfast).
And a little fantasy fight question – any of the above prime champions vs. prime Naseem Hamed at 126. Does his speed, power and unorthodox nature get him the win despite his smaller size?
Even if you don’t reply, thanks for taking the time to read this, mate.
Bread’s Response: I don’t know if Santa Cruz is the lineal champion. Check with Cliff Rold.
I think Gary Russell’s inactivity is costing him HOF credentials. Russell can fight and would be even or the favorite to defeat Mares, Santa Cruz, Frampton, Valdez and Quigg. If he were to scalp those guys he’s in the HOF. But he fights once a year in his prime. The only way you can fight once a year be a HOF is if you were already great like Floyd Mayweather or if you simply fight the #1 guy everytime out. Russell does neither. It’s strange because he can really fight. I wonder what his reasoning is for not fighting often. It can’t be money because you make more money by fighting more. You also get sharper from a boxing perspective. Maybe it’s injuries I don’t know…
I like Frampton over Warrington. I don’t know about Valdez let’s see how he looks under Reynoso who is a TERRIFIC trainer.
I can’t call Santa Cruz vs Russell that’s a toss up.
I favor Santa Cruz over Frampton but it won’t be easy.
Naseem Hamed is a legitimate great fighter. He would beat most of today’s featherweights. He would ko them in my opinion. The only one I question Santa Cruz. Leo Santa Cruz has quietly put together a HOF resume. He’s a great fighter and no one has really noticed. Hamed would have his hands full with Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz has an educated left hand and his volume and height with be tough on the Prince. I have to think about that fight a little more. But Santa Cruz is the only active featherweight I wouldn’t pick the Prince to ko.
Bread thanks for your response! And yes I’m a huge Mayweather fan unapologetically! However you brought him up! I was also a huge Pacquiao fan too…UNTIL HE WALKED AWAY FROM THE BIGGEST FIGHT EVER OVER PEDS TESTING PROTOCOLS, THAT WOULD INCLUDE BLOOD SAMPLES!
Around ma way is a small town called Compton, that on ma side we affectionately like to call Bompton. We believe in keeping it real telling the truth, don’t step on mines! Pacquiao is a phenomenal fighter I never questioned his abilities or resume. At 45 even with a considerable size advantage plus over twenty years training in Boxing, Kempo, Jujitsu, Muay Ti, and some wrestling, I don’t think I can beat Pacquiao! Not now and maybe ever! I humbly admit that. But trust me if given the opportunity I would relish the opportunity to spar a great fighter like Pacquiao…I WOULD BE HONORED SINCERELY!
I never rooted against Pacquiao accept when he fought Mosley, Mayweather, and Marquez! Around my way we don’t need to over simplify what clearly is Ducking no matter the reason. And Pac has clearly Ducked some fighters most recently Crawford! You and I know Crawford would have met him at 147. Roach himself said Crawford is to dangerous and they don’t want to fight him! That’s Ducking around my way! An fk it Bro I’m gone go out on a limb and say it’s Ducking in Philly too, but maybe you don’t see it cause you not connected to the community anymore!
I wish I really wish you media types defended Black Amerikkkan fighters the way y’all do every foreigner that shows some prowess! You media types and many many of the fans love to down play or outright dis Black fighters. And no one usually defends them. They certainly don’t defend them as hard as you do Pacquiao! And you brought up Mayweather in response to me as though that’s a bad thing to be a fan of possibly the greatest fighter to ever do it! Recently Canelo whom I’m also a fan of, went after Mayweather first!b…And yet when Floyd clapped back many in the media, and certainly many of these sick ass fans who love our talents, and abilities, but hate us, totally crapped on Floyd as though Nelo didn’t step to him first!
Speaking of Money he is flawed like all of us, he does and says some things I don’t like! But in terms of his skills and accomplishments the man is just frankly the shyt!
Do I like calling Manny Qwackman no I don’t! I don’t like calling gladiators names, but damn Manny earned that sh*t an I’m salty over him fighting Jeff Horn and not giving an Amerikkkan the shot he deserves over an obscure nobody Aussie! The way the fans and many in the media are disrespectful or down playing Jermall Charlo is sooo typical of what we Black fans have come to expect. Clearly Canelo and 3G don’t want to fight him…and if they were Black the fans and media would say so! You love 3G and defend his weak resume, while Charlo gets down played! I don’t accuse fighters of fearing each other but clearly what Charlo brings to the ring makes Golovkin and Canelo not want that fight! Canelo would rather go fight a huge nobody just like Pac did rather than give the Brother his deserved earned shot, an none of you media types are calling it out! I will give Canelo a pass because I think he deserves a bit of a soft touch but the optics look bad!
Pacquiao ducked Crawford period! As far as me calling him a name something I don’t do to other fighters I had no intentions of calling him that forever anyway. And it’s kinda run its course! I admire your passion but can you defend the Brothers just as aggressively, or are you scared? I know I’m going to get called a racist for this…but I don’t give a fk! Every other race sticks together and could careless what outsiders think! I’m not asking you to be biased but I am asking you to defend your own just like you go out your way to defend others! Peace be unto you!
Bread’s Response: Only a coward would not let you get the platform to respond. And I’m no coward. But this will be my last time responding to this particular subject.
I can tell you’re a smart guy. I just think you’re misguided with your disrespect of fighters. I also think you’re misguided in your take on me. I’m no media type. I know what you’re getting at but that’s not me. I’m a coach who has good grammar that does a mailbag as a hobby.
I speak out against injustices of black fighters all the time. What you’re trying to do is impose you’re subjective preference on a topic that wasn’t racial. You disrespected Manny Pacquiao. Period. It had nothing to do with race. I don’t even know what race you are by an email.
If you read me you know how I feel about Muhammad Ali. I love Ali so much that I’m willing to fist fight over him if he’s disrespected in my presence. I’ve taken up for Roy Jones’s positive PED test. I’ve talked about Jack Johnson. Most recently I addressed this claim that black fighters are boring yet the biggest stars and ticket sellers in boxing history have been in a large majority black. I openly talk about the urban style which is originated by black fighters and trainers.
Your problem is you hear what you want to hear. And now you’re trying to change the narrative of what our original problem was and that was you giving Pacquiao a nickname.
I agree he avoided Crawford but I don’t think NOT fighting Crawford who was NOT at 147 at the time warranted you giving him a nickname. You can’t duck a man who’s not in your weight division. Crawford himself said that Manny deserved and earned the right to fight who he wanted to fight….
The problem we have in boxing is some believe you can’t like rival fighters or fighters of opposite races. It’s insane yet some believe that. Why can’t I like GGG? My favorite fighters are Ray Robinson, Ali and Ray Leonard. All black guys. But does that mean I don’t have room for a current guy like GGG.
I do like GGG but it has nothing to with his race. I like his style. I like his punch delivery. I like his attitude. I met him and spent time at his training camp. I like the hard work he puts in. I like the fact that he’s 36 and he insist on doing VADA where as a large majority of today’s stars, black or non black won’t do VADA unless they are made to. I like that GGG is clean in era full of fake clean fighters.
I also agree that Jermall Charlo deserves a shot at GGG or Canelo. But it’s not a duck yet. You can’t call duck everytime a fighter you like doesn’t get a shot right away. GGG and/or Canelo need to see Charlo next year. Or if Canelo vacates again it’s a duck. But as we speak Charlo just moved up to 160. Charlo also should knock off a top 10 guy to force the fight. Andrade and Jacobs are black fighters who also haven’t fought Charlo….
I’m well aware of the racial injustices in sports. But I don’t think Charlo is being black balled because he’s black. Canelo has fought lots of black dudes. Lara, Trout, Kirkland, Mosley and Mayweather. GGG gave Monroe, Wade, Simon, Brook and Jacobs shots at his title. Those are black dudes too. The worst thing WE can do as a black community is make something racial that isn’t. Right now I think Charlo is a little too dangerous without the A side command power for GGG and Canelo to risk a fight with him. If they don’t give him a shot next year I will be the 1st to call it a duck. But right now it’s not a duck yet.
Thanks for writing in.
I don’t want to say that SR Leonard ducked Aaron Pryor (we’ve debated this before) but it sure would’ve been a great fight, Pryor coming off of his win over Alexis Arguello and Ray defeating Thomas Hearns, but the detached retina prevented that fight from happening.
As you and I both know boxing is like the African jungle the old lion sits on the throne until a young lion unseats him – all of the old champs, Louis, Ali, Leonard, De La Hoya, Moore, fought on until a younger, stronger fighter kicked their ass retiring them. It hurts your heart when you see that once great champion beaten down in the ring. Marciano and Floyd Mayweather have been the exception.
And me personally I rate a fighters WHOLE career not just his prime. If he continues to fight beyond his prime and beats some highly touted up-and-comer it counts in his favor as a great win, so too must the beat-downs he suffers as he fights on into his twilight. Especially if he’s losing against lower tier fighters.
Spence/Garcia, Mikey sees something and I think it’s Spence’s slim defense, especially head movement. Spence is going to go to Mikey’s body that’s his MO, and Mikey is going to counter with head shots. When you talk about the quickness factor and fight tempo of smaller fighter’s Derrick James will compensate for this by sparring Errol with a lot of quick feathers and lightweights. I DO think that Spence blows Mikey out. Spence’s length will bother Mikey, he knows how to use it better than Robert Easter Jr. Robert Garcia will throw in the towel to protect his little brother.
I wasn’t so far wrong about Crawford/Benavidez, but I was wrong. Benavidez didn’t have the 12 round stamina to fight a guy like Crawford, Crawford said as much that he was going to take Benavidez deep and drown him and that’s exactly what happened. Benavidez chance was early, he had his moments but he couldn’t pull the trigger.
Tony Harrison has very good skills and pedigree. He loses when he gets away from his foundation – his patience does him in he doesn’t box long enough to set up his kill shots. He gets on a rally while boxing then abandons his boxing, throwing caution to the wind to go for the kill. Tony sparring a lot of rounds with various styles, followed up by a lot of rest will build his stamina up.
Guys that don’t have stamina lack two things: not getting enough sunlight or rest. Fresh air is also vital. You can’t just push your heart and not rest it.
Monroe is slick and crafty, but he can’t keep it up for 12 rounds, plus he doesn’t have the punch to keep elite opponents off of him.
Bread you train fighters, what I don’t get is how a fighter goes into a fight without punching power. Power can be trained, I don’t get it. Teddy Atlas great trainer that he is would have everybody believe if you’re not born with power you have no chance of KOing anyone. KO’s have a lot to do with timing also.
Demetrius Andrade’s resume is a little slim but on closer examination minus the big names, Andrade’s resume is pretty good and his victory against Martirosyan wasn’t close at all IMO. If his last fight would’ve ben against BJ Saunders that would’ve been a better test, not disrespecting the UK fighter I just don’t think he wanted to fight Andrade, nobody does, risk/reward.
Bread’s Response: What up Rob? Here is the thing we always debate the Pryor vs Leonard duck myth. But you still haven’t given me a scenario where Leonard ducked him.
There is actually a video on youtube where Pryor admits he was offered 500k for the fight and he turned it down. Pryor says this in his post fight interview after fighting Lennox Blackmoore. Duran got 1 million in the first Leonard fight. And he was already an icon. I assume Pryor could have got 750k for his biggest career payday up until that point. Pryor’s trainer Dave Jacobs who had previously trained Leonard is on the video telling Pryor to stick with the smaller fighters.
Rob as knowledgeable as you are you confuse the time line. Pryor didn’t win a title at 140 until Aug of 1980. Leonard was NOT the champion at 147 at that time. He had just lost to Duran in June and he fought Duran in an immediate rematch in November of that year. Right after that he fought Larry Bond in early 1981. He offered Pryor the fight around that time but Pryor a new champion in a new weight class declined. Leonard then moved up to fight the undefeated Ayub Kalule at 154 showcasing next to Tommy Hearns for their showdown in September of 1981. Pryor blew his shot. Leonard was taking on great fighters in his division. Leonard fought one more time at 147 vs Bruce Finch in early 1982 and he was retired. He was actually negotiating another chance to Pryor. But the doctors sidelined him. Pryor didn’t fight Arguello until November of 1982 and it was Arguello as the A side who was going for his 4th title which would have been a record at that time.
Pryor never moved up to make a significant run at 147. He never fought Duran, Benitez or Hearns. But for some reason Leonard gets the duck myth on Pryor. We know Pryor as a great champion. But in the early 80s he was no superstar. He played B side for his title to an aging Latino fighter in Arguello and they fought here in the US. There was absolutely no way Leonard ducked Pryor. Not even close.
CHALLENGE my timeline with facts and events and I will repost it. I don’t think you can or will because the truth only comes one way.
I grade fighters on their entire careers but I do give passes if I feel a fighter is completely SHOT. Like Ali losing to Trevor Berbick in his last fight. I think you have to be a really tough critic to hold that loss against Ali. But I don’t dismiss every loss as a “past his prime” thing. No fighter will be at his absolute APEX in every fight. And you can be in your prime and not at your peak. Example…I don’t dismiss Hagler’s loss to Leonard because Hagler wasn’t at his peak. He was still champion. He was the #1 P4P in the world. Just because he wasn’t peaking doesn’t mean the fight doesn’t count.
I try to count losses accordingly. Depending on where a fighter is. Every fight doesn’t hold the same weight.
Spence doesn’t move his head much but his defense is not to be elusive it’s to stay in position and catch shots. Like Winky Wright but more offensive. Wright didn’t need to move his head to have good defense. I don’t have a problem with Spence’s lack of head movement. All defenses aren’t the same. But I do think Spence has just average defensive eyes. He stops everyone so no one notices it. But he does get hit a lot. He’s just not a great defensive fighter but his offense, physical strength and great positioning make up for it.
I don’t think Spence blows Mikey out but I do think Spence wins. Spence’s body punching is absolutely brutal. He stays in the body with both hands round after round. I think very highly of Mikey as a fighter but I haven’t seen him show his toughness. The only rough fight he’s had was Salido and that came to a bizarre ending. I don’t believe he will be able to hold Spence off late.
Good pick up on Spence’s length. He has long arms and a great underrated jab. He uses his jab better than Robert Easter does.
Benavidez fought a good fight vs Crawford. But Crawford is special and Benavidez is talented. Benavidez didn’t have the mental stamina to stay with Crawford. That’s why he broke down.
Tony Harrison does have a good skill set and solid foundation. I think he’s live in the fight. But he has shortcomings. I don’t think he accepts fatigue well. Lots of fighters get tired but they trust their 2nd wind and once they get it they roll. Some even get their 3rd wind. Harrison does not push through to his 2nd and 3rd winds and it’s the reason why he’s not undefeated. He showed maturity vs Ishe Smith but will he be able to slow the fight down that much vs a hard charging Jermell Charlo. I don’t know.
When a fighter trains really hard and his stamina is still poor I also think it’s a nutritional thing. Hydration, sun light (vitamin D), rest, nutrient intake and deficiencies. Everything adds up at the top level.
I think Monroe is in tough. I think mentally Jermall Charlo is too mean for him. Monroe is like a nice guy who just happens to box. Charlo is mean. That will be the difference. Their mentalities.
I never agreed with Tedy Atlas on his theory of power. Force= Velocity x Mass. That’s basically saying if you become bigger and faster you can punch harder. That’s why I believe in all out wind sprints for a large margin of camp. It increases the speed of the overall body. I have seen fighters who’s times go down in their runs, start to punch harder. And we haven’t even touched the topic of leverage and sweet spots.
You can also increase punching power by simple things. Hitting the heavy bag correctly. Wearing better shoes that grip the canvas. The better you plant your feet, the better push off you get on your shots. Wearing conducive gloves. Gloves that you can find the sweet spot make you a better puncher. You can increase forearm and hand grip strength which directly correlates to punching power. There are just so many things I can’t name them all. Never in a million years will I repeat that you have to be born a puncher to punch well. I totally disagree with that.
However I don’t believe you can turn a non puncher like say Ivan Calderon into Earnie Shavers. But anyone can be a respectable puncher with the proper technique and training.
Andrade’s resume is not terrible. But for a fighter so highly regarded, we just haven’t seen him in with the guys like say Danny Jacobs have faced in Quillin, Pirog, GGG and SD. Jacobs and Andrade have been pro around the same number of years, and they have similar amateur backgrounds but Jacobs has been under the gun a lot more often…
First time writing in but a long time reader of your mail bags. Is it possible in your opinion that Lennox Lewis did NOT have chin issues. He was knocked out by McCall with a perfect right counter that he did not see. Keep in mind that Emanuel Steward trained McCall for that fight and he said they worked on a counter right hand for a particular jab or something that Lewis would throw.
His other knockout was Rahman. Call me crazy but I always believed that the reason that right hand from Rahman knocked him out is because he was bouncing on the ropes right at the time the punch landed so the punch had extra force because Lewis was bounced toward it. Check the video to see if you agree. I dont remember Lewis being hurt in any other fights including Tyson, Holyfield twice, Ray Mercer etc. He also took bombs from Vitali in his last fight and was never visibly hurt either.
Milton from Albuquerque
Bread’s Response: I don’t believe Lewis had a glass jaw. Just because you get clipped doesn’t mean that. George Foreman and Evander Holyfield were clipped and they have 2 of the best chins I have ever seen.
I do however think Lewis had some chin issues. Not big ones but they did exist. Lewis was in fact hurt by Holyfield with a left hook. He was also shaken by Frank Bruno. But that’s not the end all. For large parts of his career he fought sought of scatty. He used to get accused of fighting scared. HE would engage tepidly. He fought with the temperament of a fighter who didn’t believe in his punch resistance. However he’s top 10 ever at heavyweight and he had a great career despite the perception. The thing that made Lewis so great in my opinion was his moxy. He went after both guys who clipped him and stopped them. Lots of fighters get clipped and act like them getting kod never happened and they never seek revenge. Lewis wasn’t like that he was GUN. Lewis has no real misses on his resume and he took on BIG punchers despite being kod twice.
I was just thinking watching some clips of Crawford and Spence that how great they are in the pros but weren’t exactly out of this world amateurs. Why is it that Americans, and black fighters in general don’t medal much now a days, but completely dominate the P4P rankings? By far more than any other race they always have the most top fighters in the world. Just look now for the 20 best fighters in the world and how many are Black AAs (Spence/Crawford/Thurman/Charlo Bros/etc). What is it about the amateur game that doesn’t suit their style? I mean not like they were sub-par amateurs or something, but there has to be a reason why they thrive in the professional ranks compared to the amateur scene. Is it the additional rounds that allows them to break down their opponents and figure them out? Is it that they just don’t as good training as other amateurs around the world? Sorry, may not be an interesting question but was legitimately curious to hear your opinion.
Bread’s Response: Great Question. I don’t know exactly why the better Black American fighters are better as pros than they were as amateurs. Maybe each case is individual, maybe it’s the whole thing. I for one think the US Boxing Amateur system needs more continuity. Too many changes of coaches for one.
Maybe the countries that medal have more structure at that level. The 12 round fights definitely could be a factor. I also believe that in a hotly contested amateur fight you can flip a coin and pick a winner. It’s no coincidence the hosting country medals more than usual.
Dear Breadman ,
I don’t know what to make of all these fighters jumping on the DAZN bandwagon . Almost all the middleweight division is
going that way . Just doesn’t seem like it is good for the sport . Remember when all the Heavyweights were Don King fighters . Would like to hear your opinion on this .
My second question is prime to prime , how would Ezzard Charles fare with the four light heavyweight champions we have today . I feel Adonis Stevenson would be a great match up . Do you think Charles could compete or hold his own today . My Dad says Ezzard Charles was the best light heavyweight ever . He was around Charles and saw him fight many times . I just think too much time between eras . I would say Adonis Stevenson , Roy Jones Jr , Antonio Tarver , would just smash him . What do you think .
Bread’s Response: I don’t know if it will be good or bad that most of the top middleweights went to DAZN. But I do know there will be no excuse not to make top fights at 160. Let’s see what happens.
I think you’re tripping if you think any of those guys would smash Ezzard Charles. Ezzard Charles may be top 7 or 8 fighters ever. If he would have gotten a shot at the middleweight and lightheavyweight titles he would be even higher.
Boxing has NOT evolved in the way you think it has. It only has evolved as far as the size of heavyweights. There was heavyweights over 6’4 and 240 in every era but there are more today.
But in every other weight class there is no real evolution and the skill level has decreased greatly. Infighting has regressed. Stamina has regressed. Slip and Slide style has decreased. Fighting on an angle has decreased. Jabbing has decreased. Body punching has decreased. I can go on forever, literally.
Look at the average size of each of the top fighters in each weight division. There is no difference. Charles is 6 ft even with a 73 inch reach. He’s taller that Jones and Stevenson and little shorter than Tarver. Charles actually put together one of the best heavyweight reigns in history with 9 solid title defenses. Also From 1942 to 1951 Charles was the 2nd best fighter in the world behind Ray Robinson. During that time he fought the toughest schedule in boxing for an elite fighter. Maybe the toughest schedule ever. Look at who he fought from 42-51.
The only thing more advanced in this era is youtube pad work and recovery. There are more methods to recover faster. But these fighters need it because they are counter productive. They lose 30lbs then they engage in contest of endurance where they take physical punishment. IF you really think about it, it’s backwards. Just look at Adonis Stevenson. I think he’s a heck of a fighter. But he has poor stamina on the other side of 6. Fighting a 15 round, all around stud like Charles would be murder on his gas tank. If you think Badou Jack’s well rounded style gave him fits, imagine a fighter who is levels above Jack. No offense to Jack I love him. But no one would ever say he’s in Ezzard Charles’s league.
You have lost your mind if you think the guys you named would smash Ezzard Charles. Roy Jones is on the level and I wouldn’t pick him to beat Charles 2 out of 3. You need to put some respect on Charles name.
First off, what is the latest on JRock? Word was circulating he was supposed to fight Inoue for the IBF final eliminator but I haven’t heard anything in over a month now.
On to the fight over this weekend. It was a very good scrap between two top level MWs. Both stocks went up if you ask me. Jacobs uppercut was working very well and he landed that shot quite a bit on Golovkin as well. But I did notice a flaw with him. For as big as he is, he doesn’t always fight big. He would give up his size advantage and let Derevyanchenko get on the inside and he would always pull straight out allowing Dervyanchenko to hit him with a hook every single time.
This takes me to the potential fight with Charlo. I’d say the two biggest strengths for Charlo is how calm he is in the line of fire on exchanges from the inside and just his physical strength. Jacobs would be facing someone he wouldn’t be able to out physical and even though Charlo hasn’t been with monster punchers, I suspect he has a very nice chin. How do I figure that? Well, JRock is a sharp shooter counter puncher like Brook and Charlo ATE those punches and came back like nothing happened to him. So while Jacobs will no doubt get his shots off vs Charlo, I think eventually he gets clipped on the inside as Charlo is just the better inside puncher and is willing to take more risks to get his shots off. Both guys have VERY good jabs though, so the one that takes away his opponents jab the best will have a solid advantage. Right now I favor Charlo 60/40. What do you think abut that?
Bread’s Response: Danny Jacobs is a well rounded athletic fighter with some pop. But he does have some defensive liabilities. SD was catching him going straight back and GGG dropped him going straight back. But it’s not fair to nit pick because every fighter has a vulnerable spot defensively. The key is to hide it.
You hit the nail on the head with Charlo 160. He is calm under fire. He does take a punch really well. He doesn’t shy away from contact. He holds his ground and he fires back when he’s cracked. He’s not hard to hit but he’s hard to hurt. From what I have seen his chin is more dependable than Jacobs’s.
But I want to point something out. Jacobs’s has a sneaky right hand that he lands on the temple. That’s an area where every man can be hurt. No one has a strong temple. We also must point out that taking a punch can change on a fight to fight basis. I have seen fighters with IRON chins, all of sudden have vulnerable chins. See Diego Corrales and Merqui Sosa. Both of those guys had great chins for large portions of their careers then all of a sudden they would get hit their legs would be gone. A chin is something I never brag about with a fighter until his career is completely over. Charlo does have an excellent chin but it doesn’t mean it will stay that way.
I think Charlo vs Jacobs is a great fight. I hope it happens. It’s really hard to pick in my opinion. It may come down to who is ON that night. I do think stylistically Charlo will give Jacobs big problems. But not because of anything you mentioned. Charlo has a real jab. And Jacobs doesn’t defend the jab well. SD was able to jab with Jacobs and really score with it. GGG won the fight with a basically a jab. If Charlo remembers to jab it will be tough on Jacobs because I think Charlo’s jab is faster and he’s taller than both GGG and SD.
Hey man. Hope all is right with your world. Just wanted to say thank you. For shining a little light on something. I appreciate what you said in your response to me writing in. I hope you don’t find this strange but I was moved to do so, so here I go. I never leave my name because we always pressin forward, never resting on what was. Also because your mailbag is just a cool place to talk shop. The exchange of ideas is really all that matters. Not trying to legitimize any perspective by offering any sort of resume.
What I wanted to thank you for was your compliment. And not about what you said about my boxing (I thank you for that too tho) but for calling me humble. There’s a story I tell people sometimes about how my view of humility has changed. As a fighter it had not much personal meaning to me. I tell them that if years ago someone pointed to someone and said, “u see that man, that’s a humble dude”. I’d laugh and say “that mf got ain’t no choice! I MOOOOVE SOMETHIN!!” I chose to leave boxing because I slowly recognized how it was pulling me further and further away from being the kind of man I hoped to be. I left, I learned and if I look back I’m just grateful for all the life lessons I extracted from this hard game called boxing. I’ve been called many things in my life, but humble? Brother, yours was a first. Many thank yous. Happy holidays brother. To you and yours. Stay up!! Tokunbo Olajide
Bread’s Response: Thank you. Now that the fans know who you are. I have a deep memory. I remember every elite fighter I’ve ever seen. I can recall punch sequences and what side of the ring things happened on. When I saw you BUMP, I was dam dude has some talent. I knew who you were as soon as you wrote in.
Without a doubt you’re humble. It doesn’t matter to me who has ever called you humble or not. I know what I know. You never once tried to slide your credentials in to enhance your credibility. I hate that. Boxing is the most ENVIOUS and bottom feeding sport I have ever been around. I appreciate you man.
I have a story. There is an awards banquet in Philly where the young fighters get honored. The older fighters come out to give awards or present awards and just support the banquet in general. Bro they are so stuck on whatever they did as fighters you can’t even hear the young 21 yr old kid on the stage accepting his award because they all talk about old stories while the kids are on stage. And when the older fighters get on stage to present the awards, within 30 seconds they’re talking about what they used to do instead of the fighter they are presenting the award too. It’s so CLASSLESS.
Boxing is the only sport where so called trainers are always attacking other trainer’s credentials. You don’t hear a football coach saying he was an ALL Pro so therefore he will out coach the opposing coaches. In boxing so many coaches are obsessed with how many fights, how good, what gym etc the other coach used to train at. Why do would you care what credentials the opposing coach had? If you think you’re more qualified just train your guy to kick his guy’s ass. That’s all and it’s simple.
Having a world class bad ass write in to me and never name drop, never try to make himself the End All and Know All is refreshing and I appreciate you bro. Stay Blessed.
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